Tradition and Revolution. Chapter 21: The Guru, Tradition and Freedom
Krishnamurti: Could we enquire - not only from the traditional point of view but also relate the whole field of tradition to what we have been talking about, to see the divergence, the contradictions, the similarities and dissimilarities? And also see if there is anything new in what we are saying. Let us discuss this; question it back and forth.
A: We might start with the four purusharthas - dharma, artha, kama and moksha. If we examine the traditional approach to living, we see that tradition begins with the fact that human existence has these four aspects and each of them is vital, essential for the development of understanding.
Krishnamurti: Should we not begin with the meaning of it all?
A: The fundamentalists started with the meaning of it all, with the four aspects.
Krishnamurti: Should we not enquire what it all means - human existence, human sorrow, conflict? What does it all mean? How do the professionals answer this question?
SW: In the tradition, we find two clear directions. The orthodox direction which goes by verbal interpretation of facts and the breakaway tradition, as seen in Dattatreya and the yoga vasishtha. The seers who broke away, said "no guru", "We have discovered it for ourselves", "I will not swear by the Vedas", "the whole of nature, the whole world is my guru", "observe and understand the world". In Buddha also, there was a breaking away. His teaching represents the core of the breakaway pattern. Those who broke away were closely linked with life.
If you read the yoga vasishtha, it says that the mind is full of thoughts, conflicts; and these conflicts arise because of desire and fear; unless you are able to resolve them, you cannot understand. It talks of negative thinking. Max Mueller and some others misinterpreted the word nirodha. The word does not mean suppression, it means negation.
A great deal is said about gurus. The yoga vasishtha says that giving initiation and such other actions are meaningless. Awakening of the disciple is in right understanding and in awareness. That alone is the most primary responsible fact. These essentials are the core of the breakaway tradition.
R: And yet there are many places in the yoga vasishtha where it says without a guru, you cannot find anything.
A: Breakaway from what? If it is a breakaway from the social system, the breakaway tradition also continues the social system.
SW: To the problem of understanding, tradition gives a formal verbal approach. In the breakaway tradition, this is not so. The breakaway is not from society. Both these traditions exist. In the mathas or monasteries, they talked of the Vedas but what they said had nothing to do with life; there were others who related all that they understood to life. But whatever was said had nothing to do with the society.
R: How is it that the guru tradition has become so important?
Krishnamurti: Shall we discuss this question of guru? Shall we begin with that? What does the word "guru" mean?
SW: "Desika" is the right word, not guru. Desika means one who helps to awaken the disciple; one who helps the seeker to understand. The word means one who learns.
R: The disciple is called shishya. Shishya is one who is capable of learning.
SW: Guru means vast, beyond, great.
Krishnamurti: The guru is one who is great, beyond, one who is profound, then what relationship has he to a disciple?
SW: In the Upanishads, it is one of love and compassion. The Upanishads maintain that compassion is the contact between the guru and the disciple.
Krishnamurti: How has the tradition now become authoritarian? How has a sense of discipline, of following, of acceptance of whatever the guru says, how has that been introduced into the relationship? The authoritarian, compulsive, destructive relationship comes in the way of real thinking, it destroys initiative. How has this relationship come into being?
SW: It is difficult to say. The two approaches must have existed for a long time. In one tradition, the guru is taken as a friend, as a person the disciple loves; in that the guru is not authoritarian at all. The other tradition exploits. It wants authority, followers.
